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Author Topic: On the merits of heavy loadouts  (Read 9951 times)
Epochalyptik
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« on: January 20, 2014, 07:33:02 AM »

I've never been a fast runner. I rarely sprint (unless I absolutely have to get away from something), but I'm a good shot. Therefore, my usual strategy is to load up with tons of guns, darts, and socks. I usually tank my way through most threats, and I'm effectively untouchable in defense missions.


My typical loadout:

Primary: EAT
  • AR removal (peg still in place)
  • Stockade stock (solid, light, comfortable, extra space for darts)
  • Rail-mounted dart holder (extra space for darts)
  • 18+18 jungle mag (allows me to reload the gun and the off mag quickly)

Secondary: Stryfe
  • Mechanical lock removal (dart checker, trigger lock, pusher lock)
  • Foregrip (purely for comfort; my hands are slightly too big to hold the front of the gun)
  • Retaliator stock (solid, light, comfortable, provides sling point)
  • 18+18 jungle mag

Sidearm: Hammershot (kept in vest holster)
  • Suction darts (for better accuracy at expense of range)

Sidearm: Triad (kept in vest magazine loop)
  • Suction darts (for better accuracy at expense of range)

Sidearm: Socks (cut and wrapped small to allow greater capacity)

Utility: Nerf vest
  • 2x 18-dart magazines (on wearer's right, extending into mesh pouch)
  • Triad (on wearer's left, kept in magazine loop)
  • 3x socks (on wearer's left, kept in magazine loop)
  • Hammershot (in holster)
  • Spare suction darts (in dart loops, for sidearms)

Optional: Rapidstrike
  • 35-dart drum

To carry the EAT and Stryfe, I thread a bandolier/sling through the Stryfe's Retaliator stock, then attach both clips to the sling mount on the EAT's grip. I connect the sling clips with a carabiner to keep everything in place if one clip somehow disconnects from the EAT. I wear the sling over my vest, and the off-gun hangs at my right side. Switching between them takes only a fraction of a second, and they aren't awkward to carry.

I normally grab darts and top off my jungle mags in lieu of bringing a drop pouch with more mags. Zombies at my campus tend to form lots of horde charges, but they don't have much sustain to those hordes. It's charge -> lull -> charge -> lull rather than constant small charges (which is the appropriate way to wear down human holdouts and prevent scavenging).

I just acquired the Rapidstrike, and I assume I'd have to replace one or both of my main guns because there's no practical way to add a third main to my loadout. I could survive on just the Hammershot and Triad for ranged sharpshooting if necessary. The Rapidstrike would probably be only for moving cover or for breaking hordes, and I'd probably load it with jungles/18s after the drum mag.


Now to the discussion:

Is this playstyle really viable?

It seems to work for me, and I can solo hordes of up to 15-20, depending on zombie players' skill. I have superior survivability in defense missions and holdouts, and I can usually target and eliminate key zombie players when hordes form or loiter too closely. Zombies also tend to avoid me if possible because they recognize me as a veteran and a sharpshooter.

The problem is I can't outrun hordes (although this is more to do with my poor cardio and slow running speed than the weight of the loadout). If I get surrounded, I shoot a hole in one side of the horde and cover my way out. Or I die trying to do exactly that. I stay out of open areas whenever possible because I can't sprint through the lines if they organize themselves.

I suppose the conclusion is that it works if you can make it work. It isn't the typical approach; most players around me bring only a gun and maybe some spare mags. Only the few hardcore vets bring vests and multiple guns/etc.
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Human role: heavy/sharpshooter
Primary: EAT (AR removal, Stockade stock, dart holder, 18+18 jungle mag) [sharpshooting]
Secondary: Stryfe (mechanical lock removal, foregrip, 18+18 jungle mag) [CQC]
Sidearm: Hammershot, socks, Triad
Utility: Vest
Optional: Rapidstrike (35-dart drum) [support]
torukmakto4

DANGER - Stored Energy

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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 10:19:35 AM »

I would certainly consider it viable. IMO, that loadout isn't "heavy" at all. I usually have something similar. So does everyone else around me.

About the only time I have considered my setup "heavy" was when I have my Vulcan with 75 rounds, RapidSwarm slung for when I run out of ammo on that, 4 mags and a 35 round bandolier, a Rayven under my arm and a belt with about 25 socks. Running with all the guns is annoying but I can do it.

Minus the Vulcan (i.e. the type loadout in this thread, more or less), forget about inherent mobility problems or issues running. I always find it funny when people consider a rather pedestrian rifle like a Stampede to slow a human down. I rarely run, as I tend to find that running is usually foolish for me and I work with a squad that doesn't move chaotically and carelessly, but there were two notable instances in which I had to GTFO and ditched all the pursuing zeds completely. I had a swarmpede, and back then I was all NiCd and also carried mags in my pockets. A human can mechanically move just fine with gear on. Anyone having trouble, get some practice.
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CT-2406
Quartermaster of the Florida 501st

You are now entering The Dart Zone
Zombona


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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 10:58:37 AM »

It if works for you why mess with success.
I tend to play very lite as I prefer mobility. I don't give up much firepower for it though.
I bring a stryfe (going to try two in the spring) and like two or three extra mags, a pouch of sock grenades, and a bag of extra darts for refills. I move around so much if I carried much more it would get obnoxious. I like to be able to put everything in a place where it won't rattle. I am also a runner so mobility is a strong point I like to exploit.
The game I play is very small (between 50-100 players) and the zombie horde is not very...competitive (compared to what I have read on here). Our zombies don't really horde up and usually roam in groups of 3-7 and don't really communicate well with each other.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 10:23:22 AM by Zombona » Logged

I do so love my OJ Stryfe.
Ross_Varn
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 05:26:22 PM »

I suppose the conclusion is that it works if you can make it work. It isn't the typical approach; most players around me bring only a gun and maybe some spare mags. Only the few hardcore vets bring vests and multiple guns/etc.

Exactly this. My gear is akin to yours in quantity of loadout, but without a large "hardcore" presence on campus (most people shy away if you as much as mention opening a blaster in their vicinity) it's qualified as heavy in comparison to the rest of the human forces. In a game full of equipped players, I'd call the EAT loadout a skirmisher or rifleman role- it's the ideal bulk of the human forces, capable of doing pretty much anything.
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Lindenwood University - St. Charles MO
Loadout: Agile Wit
Epochalyptik
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 06:07:34 PM »

I wish this loadout were more standard in my area. It would help the humans survive a bit longer.

However, this is the most gear any one player carries, so I often have to fill the heavy role. Most other players use Retaliators or Rampages, and a large percent of the rest use only single-shot pistols and/or socks.
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Human role: heavy/sharpshooter
Primary: EAT (AR removal, Stockade stock, dart holder, 18+18 jungle mag) [sharpshooting]
Secondary: Stryfe (mechanical lock removal, foregrip, 18+18 jungle mag) [CQC]
Sidearm: Hammershot, socks, Triad
Utility: Vest
Optional: Rapidstrike (35-dart drum) [support]
Ross_Varn
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 10:08:46 PM »

Oh, very much so the same here. I'm usually one of the folks who is loaning out blasters like there's no tomorrow, too. I'd like to play a game on Toruk's turf where everyone's geared up and ready for the apocalypse- that's what invitationals are good for, I suppose!
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Lindenwood University - St. Charles MO
Loadout: Agile Wit
Sixth Kira

"I'll take this potato chip... and I'll eat it!"

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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 08:02:19 AM »

One can be just as mobile with or without gear - it's all in how you rig it. A good tactical vest can allow you to carry a Stampede and a few hundred rounds loaded into mags comfortably, and a holster can give you a sidearm. Plus practically unlimited extra ammunition in a small backpack.

The only things that slow you down significantly are loose, excess gear (like what Toruk described). Keep it all tightly strapped to you and you can move perfectly.

That's why I believe that HvZ squads comprising of well-equipped members are the most dangerous. If you know what you're doing, extra gear won't hurt mobility (until you hit the point where you're carrying >4 guns, which you really shouldn't need to do - one rifle, one sidearm, and maybe one special applications weapon is perfectly fine).
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"Sir, how many darts does this blaster fire per second?"

"all of them"
JPRoth1980


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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 10:00:23 AM »

My only comment or concern with your loadout would be this:

Why in the heck do you need all those blasters?

What does an EAT give you that a Stryfe doesn't?  Under what circumstances would you grab for one instead of the other?

Likewise, what good does a Triad do if you already have a jam-proof sidearm handy?

Basically, I can't help but think that you're carrying around redundant blasters and that you'd benefit from losing the EAT or Stryfe along with the Triad.  My personal advice would be to ditch the EAT, at the very least.
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Epochalyptik
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 04:25:02 PM »

What does an EAT give you that a Stryfe doesn't?  Under what circumstances would you grab for one instead of the other?

Likewise, what good does a Triad do if you already have a jam-proof sidearm handy?

The EAT provides superior accuracy, which is important because my playstyle centers on being able to eliminate targets at range before a charge. The Stryfe is there as an SMG. It helps me round corners and spray down hordes when the needs arise.

Additionally, it's must faster to switch to a second main than it is to reload. The sling system allows me to go from an empty gun to a full one in less than a second, and it also allows me to cover solo reloads.



The Hammershot and Triad are a bit redundant, but they also serve purposes in my playstyle. I keep the Triad in a vest loop because the left two mag loops are not positioned well for 18-dart mags. One loop holds a Triad, and the other holds a cluster of socks.

The Triad is perfect for taking quick pot shots, covering a reload, or killing a harasser.

The Hammershot is slower to draw, but functions as a higher-capacity, one-handed sidearm. I carry it partly because it's functional and partly because the vest holster has no other use. I might as well cram another gun into that space because I can't put anything else there.



If I were put into a position where I had to take a lighter loadout, I'd probably ditch the Stryfe and take the EAT. The EAT slam-fires, so it can put out the same volume of fire as the Stryfe. It has better range and accuracy, though, so it's a solid performer across the board.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:26:38 PM by Epochalyptik » Logged

Human role: heavy/sharpshooter
Primary: EAT (AR removal, Stockade stock, dart holder, 18+18 jungle mag) [sharpshooting]
Secondary: Stryfe (mechanical lock removal, foregrip, 18+18 jungle mag) [CQC]
Sidearm: Hammershot, socks, Triad
Utility: Vest
Optional: Rapidstrike (35-dart drum) [support]
Pompadour64


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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 07:01:09 PM »

If you're looking for an SMG, why not minimize the Rapidstrike in place of the Stryfe? I think that would complement your loadout much better.
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Epochalyptik
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 07:48:41 PM »

If you're looking for an SMG, why not minimize the Rapidstrike in place of the Stryfe? I think that would complement your loadout much better.

The semi-auto ROF and longer trigger pull on the Stryfe don't bother me all that much. Not enough to motivate me to crack open my RS and start rewiring everything. The Stryfe is naturally lighter anyway.

The important thing about the SMG role for me is the ability to put lots of darts downrange quickly and from a compact frame. The Stryfe does that job even though it's semi-auto.
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Human role: heavy/sharpshooter
Primary: EAT (AR removal, Stockade stock, dart holder, 18+18 jungle mag) [sharpshooting]
Secondary: Stryfe (mechanical lock removal, foregrip, 18+18 jungle mag) [CQC]
Sidearm: Hammershot, socks, Triad
Utility: Vest
Optional: Rapidstrike (35-dart drum) [support]
evands


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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 02:49:39 AM »

Simple fix for the fast ROF of the Rapidstrike: wire the pusher motor separate from the flywheels, and install a PWM motor speed control unit in the circuit for the pusher.  I've done this twice, and it's really easy to do.  This is the one I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-24V-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-10A-Pulse-Width-Modulator-Controller-Switch-/260903908989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbf15b67d.  It allows you to control the speed of the pusher motor, so you can actually adjust the ROF of the blaster from full speed to nearly nothing.  Having an adjustable ROF is so practical, it's disgusting; you're able to go from single shots to insane horde-busting cover fire with the turn of a dial.  This is also why many military firearms have a select-fire switch to decide between safe, semi-auto, and full-auto.

My two cents on going heavy is to have one high-capacity/ROF blaster, one front-loading sidearm, and easily accessible ammunition.  While having a small blaster tucked into an unused pocket is great in case of emergencies, you can instead carry another handful of darts to top off your main primary, which keeps you from ever needing the other blaster.  For example, my average loadout is my dual-adjustable Rapidstrike, two bandoliers, three jungle clips, a bag of darts, pockets filled with darts, and a minimized Scout hidden in the inside pocket of my jacket.  The RS can do everything I need it to, I have a constant supply of darts and mags, and the Scout is there as a last resort blaster in case my RS dies.  Again, I recommend an adjustable ROF Rapidstrike to break charges, but conserve darts during the lull in between.
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Standard Loadout:
Primary - "Banshee" Rapidstrike (Blade 180 motors, adjustable ROF/flywheel power)
Secondary - extra clips and darts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZSFws1LMU

Quote from: Ross_Varn
Rabid squirrels are not an approved special weapon on any campuses, keep that in mind.
torukmakto4

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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 09:14:58 AM »

I have used my 6-speed pusher (on the RapidSwarm) in combat but I still think that at most, you would need 2 speeds (all I ever use are "1st gear" 500RPM and "6th gear" Holy shit get ALL the darts downrange NOW!). Running a mechanically enforced slow ROF seems to me to be a liability, since when you need the dakka it's not a trigger pull away, and plus getting slow ROF by just slowing down the pusher motor causes a lock time, like a stock stampede. Getting single shots from either a stock pusher motor RS or a 500RPM Blade pusher RS is as easy as shooting a Stryfe and nearly as instant.
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CT-2406
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Chevalier Mal Fet
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 08:54:32 PM »

In my opinion, it depends on what you mean by "viable."

Do you mean something that will get you through most of the day, and be able to handle most situations you run into? Then sure. It sounds like you're already making it work. You can load up with as many blasters as you want and make it through 90% of the situations you run into just fine.

But it's that last 10% that kills you.

SO, if by viable, do you mean "almost guaranteed to survive, provided I don't screw up?" Well, then I would say no. But I would say that for any loadout that favors firepower over speed. The only way to guarantee your own survival during HvZ is to be quick. Last spring, I carried no socks at all (I declared myself a "war correspondent" and carried only a camera) and made it to day four relatively easily, at which point I cheerfully suicided since I had to work through the remainder of the game. Last semester, wanting to be a bit more proactive, I carried perhaps a dozen socks in my pockets and again had absolutely no issue surviving.

Therefore, if by viable you mean "can I guarantee my own survival with this loadout," then I would say no, but I would say that for every loadout that's just purely socks.
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Om nom, kiddos.

Screw those lists of blasters. Being a zombie is just better.
Sixth Kira

"I'll take this potato chip... and I'll eat it!"

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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2014, 03:37:37 AM »

A very good point there, Chevalier.

I'd say that it depends on what you want out of a loadout. If you're looking for personal survival, sure - speed is fine. I've got a friend who runs with only a Recon and survives to the end of every game quite handily.

But it's not effective for mass-scale combat. I don't regard personal survival as a priority in HvZ - for me, the lifeblood of the game is missions. That's where heavies are useful - either holding down difficult objectives or assaulting heavily-fortified points.

Ideally, the combination is a super-lightweight loadout for day-to-day and a heavy for missions. The most effective squads I've seen in missions are built exclusively of mobile heavies (as described above), with a few super-lightweight players to perform reconnaissance and generally harass the horde.
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Wearer of the great and mighty longcoat. Worship my coat and all it stands for, gentlemen.

"Sir, how many darts does this blaster fire per second?"

"all of them"
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