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Author Topic: Tagging Blasters  (Read 3466 times)
impact36inc

"...The sweet piano writing down my life..."

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« on: April 14, 2014, 11:52:26 AM »

Myself and another of the head moderators of our game have had a couple disputes as to calling tags made on blasters, i.e. a zombie tags the blaster the human is carrying, so is the human considered tagged?
My call has always been "yes", because I consider a blaster to be an extension of one's arms/torso. She does not consider that a tag because it is not an actual part of your body.
We are trying to clear this up so we can have a definite ruling for our players.
How do your games rule this?
Thanx!
~impact36inc
Head Moderator
Johnson State College
Johnson, VT
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torukmakto4

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 12:35:03 PM »

In all of the games I have played, gun tags are prohibited, along with other "extensions of the body" like backpacks. You can tag the latter, but unless the tag would have hit flesh in the item's absence, it does not count as a kill. As a player I am satisfied with this policy and fellow players and mods seem to agree.

In support of absolutely no gun tags of any kind, I will note:

* Inanimate objects are NOT extensions of the human body. A zombie bite to a weapon does not infect the wielder, obviously; so the simulation value of this mechanic is questionable.

* The "Well, in 'real life' the zombie grabbed you by the gun or the backpack and then you are surely going to die" explanation assumes that zombies have significantly superhuman strength, the item cannot be dropped, another weapon cannot be used on the zed, squadmates can't shoot the zed, and the human generally can never escape once seized by a zombie. How much Z fiction do you see in which that is true? Once again, the simulation value is questionable.

* Unnatural issues with weapons handling: It is natural for humans wielding a gun of any kind to keep the muzzle in front of them and on point when going around corners and cover, with the expectation that poking their barrel around some cover does not expose themselves to death or injury. With "extension" mechanics this becomes a gotcha situation. It is just yet another need for adaptation, but IMO, not an adaptation that benefits the game or makes it more fun or a better fake zombie apocalypse.

* Physical contact of enemy player with gear increases the risk of injury and property damage. This applies to both tags and "deflections". I put a lot into my equipment, I do not want zeds intentionally slamming into it, and I don't want my wrists getting messed up as has happened to many players.  Nor do I want my currently-undead friends getting hurt by the edges of accessory rails and front sights. It is safest when zeds don't even think about the gun as an objective when making a tag, but rather the actual human.
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CT-2406
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Catastrophe
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 02:49:05 PM »

It really comes down to what you think is best as far as rules go. We've run our game for 5 semesters now and have allowed blaster tags the entire time. I can't think of many situations (if any at all) where someone who got a tag via blaster wouldn't have gotten their arm or something else.
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Argurotox


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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 09:04:03 PM »

We run our games allowing blaster and backpack tags. In fact, anything you're carrying, ranging from an umbrella to a satchel to a giant hat, is a valid tag target. We introduced this not because of any elaborate concerns about the gameplay effect, but simply because we have a player whose religion forbids them from deliberately touching males or being touched by them, but still wants to play HvZ.

However, given the choice, I'd probably outlaw them, for several reasons, most outlined above. The obvious risk of property damage or hand damage for one, the issue with barrels around corners for another, but in my experience "blaster tags" cause the greatest amount of disputes, because humans aren't able to feel the tags, and the zombie focus on the blaster means they don't feel or see the dart emerging from it, or feel that it emerged after they scored the tag. It also seems to encourage dangerous tags, because of the nature of a blaster-in-hand - it's a small target, moving quickly, and often at the edge of lunging range, leading to dangerous lunges with people trying to tag too quickly before they're stunned, not to mention what happens when they swing and miss!
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Benzene


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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 12:43:32 AM »

That's funny, our game is opposite to most of the answers in this thread. We allow blaster tags to prevent humans from deliberately blocking zombie charges with their guns or pistol whipping.
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"The Kneepads Guy"
University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Lordmonocrona
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 02:14:19 PM »

My views are such: It's already hard enough for the humans to win. this is something very small that they can defend themselves with. give em that little extra advantage.
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impact36inc

"...The sweet piano writing down my life..."

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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 11:38:59 AM »

I appreciate everyone's input! Since my fellow moderator that votes no blaster tags is Head Modding our upcoming game, we're going to keep things her way for now to lower any confusion that may occur. We're still only in our first year of play, so we're still working out the kinks.  Smiley
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Sixth Kira

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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 06:11:40 AM »

@Toruk: Something I'm curious as to - in your game, are zombies (once in melee range) allowed to force guns aside for a tag?
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Locke


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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 11:46:20 AM »

Quote
In all of the games I have played, gun tags are prohibited, along with other "extensions of the body" like backpacks. You can tag the latter, but unless the tag would have hit flesh in the item's absence, it does not count as a kill. As a player I am satisfied with this policy and fellow players and mods seem to agree.

I'm curious about this as well. The moderating team at my school is very devoutly for gun tags. Apparently the semesters before I got to the school, people were using barrel extension longshots as spears to keep the zombies from getting to them. Is this kind of mechanic not an issue down in Florida?

Also, is this thread in the right sub-forum?
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torukmakto4

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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 01:24:49 PM »

Honestly I am kind of surprised to see no gun tags being the minority viewpoint here.

@Toruk: Something I'm curious as to - in your game, are zombies (once in melee range) allowed to force guns aside for a tag?

No. That was brought up at some point and determined to be an invalid way to get a tag, if I remember correctly.

Several games ago a squadmate was hurt when a zombie got a bit too excited and smacked a Rampage out of the way. The tag was ruled invalid, but the deflection still happened and so did the injury.

I'm curious about this as well. The moderating team at my school is very devoutly for gun tags. Apparently the semesters before I got to the school, people were using barrel extension longshots as spears to keep the zombies from getting to them. Is this kind of mechanic not an issue down in Florida?

No, that kind of mechanic never really happens.

Shielding is banned, and blatant use as a shield would result in a dispute being called by the zombie. However, that never really comes up with large unwieldy rifles sticking out and the like, because the zombies here aren't going to charge you head on and go for center mass tags and have to run into those objects. Good zeds have far better (less defensible and less predictable) tag targets on the human body, even in a head-on engagement (which is a minority and only likely to take out noob humans); specifically, dodging to the side or going for the ankles. From all other angles of approach to that human, the LS is irrelevant.

Not to mention, for every 1 situation a super-long-shot would save you by shielding a tag, there are 10 situations in which it can only harm your chances of survival, and if you did it, you would probably join the horde quickly.
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CT-2406
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Dandelo
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2014, 05:39:31 PM »

Truman has always allowed all clothing/blasters/etc to be counted as extensions of the body for the purposes of tags and stuns.

So, blaster tags count. The idea we throw out is "if someone can grab your gun, they can wrest it away from you, and you die."

By that same token, other objects like backpacks, robes, capes, etc, are all counted for both tags and stuns. It's the choice of someone to wear these articles, as it is the prerogative of the opposition of shoot or tag them.

EDIT: In general, I don't like the idea that zombies wouldn't be allowed to grab your big, obnoxious gear bags or giant blasters to get the kill. It's much simpler to count everything as fair game. In my opinion, it's the humans' concern to have the skill to defend themselves despite their more cumbersome loadout, not the zombies' job to have to work around it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 05:43:30 PM by Dandelo » Logged

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Argurotox


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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 08:20:43 PM »

We have the same rules on capes and cloaks, too. A full palm touch on a cape is a tag, a dart, disc, or sock hitting one is similarly a stun. We have an exception in that if any grab-and-pull type affair happens with the cloak, the tag is instantly disallowed, just to keep people from being tempted... H & S and all that.
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Sixth Kira

"I'll take this potato chip... and I'll eat it!"

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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 12:51:24 PM »

Yeah, down here in Melbourne, gun tags were banned until we saw people using Longstrikes to block off and even strike zombies to keep them away; since then, any part of your body is deemed a valid tag (even my longcoat Cry ).
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"Sir, how many darts does this blaster fire per second?"

"all of them"
Benzene


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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 10:43:22 AM »

Oh god, last minigame I played I wore a trenchcoat, until I got tired of dodging darts and realizing I was stunned anyway because of the gigantic coat. Large coats on zombies are only good if you're a special infected that's immune to darts
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"The Kneepads Guy"
University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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