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Author Topic: Is this unfair? "Ghostbusters" style blaster 270 rounds  (Read 2196 times)
Ghost Reporting


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« on: November 20, 2015, 09:19:50 PM »

Created by "Outof Darts"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSfB9OWdcE

Basically a Nerf Rival Zeus modified to be fed by a backpack containing a coil tube/hopper assembly pressurized by a blower.  Demonstrated capacity is 270 rounds, theoretical max capacity is 330 rounds. 

The chief disadvantage is that it's noisy as hell (Outof Darts says you will sound like a leaf blower), but with that much ammo and firepower, just one person in a squad could make that squad practically invincible during a mission.  A whole squad of people with these weapons would, barring mistakes, be invincible. 

It is pretty amazing.  I have never seen a blaster like this.
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"Somebody call for an exterminator?"
Primary: Alpha Recon (AT+ Recon stock, sight);  Holdouts: Jolt, socks, foam stress toys;  Undergoing Evaluation: None
Katyusha


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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 09:54:07 PM »

barring mistakes

And there's the key point.  HvZers don't exactly have the kind of intensive training required to not make the sort of mistakes that get their brains nommed.  Even without infinite ammo we're pretty much already at the point where the average player has enough firepower that giving them even more dakka won't really make much difference.  Modern HvZ is all about outsmarting the humans and making them screw up rather than taking advantage of crappy weapons like it used to be.  Taking down a proton pack wielder is going to be basically the same as taking down somebody with a high-end Rapidstrike build: ambush them, or isolate and overwhelm them in a mass horde rush.
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"Sir, how many darts does this blaster fire per second?"

"all of them"
torukmakto4

Interstellar Caveman

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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 12:32:24 AM »

Ghost! You're alive! Old memories.

Oh geez. This subject, equipment fairness and HvZ.

Look, how many times have we seen the HvZ community react to some upcoming/new quantum advance in equipment with doomsday predictions for the game? Or look back on a recent period of continuous improvement and worry over game balance in the future? It was one hell of a lot of times. Too many to list. Tons of product releases and hobby developments. It has been happening all along the road from 2005 to 2015, during which time the equipment has evolved to something superior to the wildest dreams of the early players, let alone what people were once worried about "killing HvZ".

How many times have those pundits been right?

Never.

Not once in the history of HvZ.

There are a number of factors as to why; not the least of which is that HvZ is an evolutionary player vs. player struggle by nature (at least when it is healthy) and is far from one-sided. The zombies have their tools; they just aren't physical objects that are so easy to fixate on. Game balance has remained intact through all these years and not just all the equipment changes but also the massive improvement in human tactics and skill due to the decade of community experience between the very first game and now. Before anyone cites rules and moderators as the primary cause of that, anyone who has played a true vanilla game in 2015, as I have, knows that the core mechanics don't need much balancing assistance.

And there's the key point.  HvZers don't exactly have the kind of intensive training required to not make the sort of mistakes that get their brains nommed.  Even without infinite ammo we're pretty much already at the point where the average player has enough firepower that giving them even more dakka won't really make much difference.  Modern HvZ is all about outsmarting the humans and making them screw up rather than taking advantage of crappy weapons like it used to be.  Taking down a proton pack wielder is going to be basically the same as taking down somebody with a high-end Rapidstrike build: ambush them, or isolate and overwhelm them in a mass horde rush.

And this is truth.

Blasters are guns, not forcefields. And the defeat of humans nowadays, probably since at least 2012 if not earlier, is primarily driven by the failings of human players (based on skill in combat, but more importantly larger scale strategic errors) moreso than inadequate hardware. Modern loadouts are such that they can run as hard as the player can run them in nearly all cases.

As to escalation of capacity, nowadays we are probably at an inflection point where the change in human effectiveness per unit capacity increase has started to reduce and there is even less to worry about in terms of impact from these sorts of developments than there may have been early on in the transitional period mentioned above. Modern magfed loadouts can allow humans in common HvZ situations with a bit of skill/practice changing mags to keep shooting quite continuously and carry enough ammo for extended fights already. They are already so adequate that there is only a marginal remaining benefit to chase.

Bulk loaders, hoppers, airfeeds, etc. for HIR guns, as much as I don't (personal preference) really like non-magfed getting too mainstream, are not going to be a threat in HvZ. Systems like this are still squarely in a machinegun or squad support role - they are bulky, expensive to build, not very controllable, not very versatile in the way a rifle platform is, and very hungry. The predecessors to HIR Zedbuster packs are the gravity mag or drum mag equipped Nitron and the Vulcan which had capacities and fire sustainability at the time similarly notable. It isn't magic, nor will it get mass market penetration.
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All AC drives all the time from here on. Brushes suck.
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irishknots


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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2015, 11:01:19 AM »

If the echo wasn't already clear, no. This does not break the game.

Coming from one who is always trying to find new fun ways to increase my loadout and now has metagame designed around him - this does not break the game.

This specific blaster only really trumps other blasters in pure ammo consumption. BOOM Nitrons, RS, Vulcans all can get in the same territory of ROF with the 1,3 blasters having similar capacities.

It all really comes down to this.
Quote
Look, how many times have we seen the HvZ community react to some upcoming/new quantum advance in equipment with doomsday predictions for the game? Or look back on a recent period of continuous improvement and worry over game balance in the future? It was one hell of a lot of times. Too many to list. Tons of product releases and hobby developments. It has been happening all along the road from 2005 to 2015, during which time the equipment has evolved to something superior to the wildest dreams of the early players, let alone what people were once worried about "killing HvZ".

The metagame of HVZ has evolved over the years has grown and changed with what equipment the players have available. Blasters from the Raider to the Rapidstrike were all thought to kill the game when they first entered the market - they didn't. Zombies have always been able to kill players based not on their equipment but their own ineptitude/inexperience. Every player now has the ability to go out and purchase/build a high ROF rifle, but it becomes useless to them in the game if they aren't familiar with it and its habits.

My mod teams have grown around me and seen what kind of firepower fully modded blasters can pump out, thus they let the game evolve. It is not due to my equipment that I am difficult to nom, it is due to my ~40 games of experience and awareness.

We can also see much of this manifested in the fact that Sock Ninjas are still around in the game. Equipment will never break the game, but rather provide diversity to the playstyles.
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Primary: RapidStrike/Swarmy/RS mini
Secondary: 180 Blade Stryfe
Tertiary: Hammershot/Triad
Lots of ammo/socks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrW_0lfGSjg
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