Newb Advice Thread Discussion

[DerajareD]

quote

Would this also apply to a blaster using 4 eneloops (4.8v) as opposed to more powerful batteries?

[torukmakto4]

Would this also apply to a blaster using 4 eneloops (4.8v) as opposed to more powerful batteries?

EDIT: I don't think anyone is burning them out with 4 alkaline/nickel cells.

RE-EDIT: Whoops, I was wrong

Huh. I just had one of these motors die on me too. I haven't pulled it yet to investigate. Mine saw daily use on 4xAAs (5-6v); exclusively short spin-ups of the flywheels; no extended run-time at all beyond launching a handful of darts rapid fire.

For what it's worth... I think that regardless of voltage, the simple fact of the low turn winding and brush design guarantees a short operating life.

[Bobololo]

Would what apply?

Click the date above the quote to see what he's referring to.

[torukmakto4]

Click the date above the quote to see what he's referring to.

Oops, didn't think of that.

On this subject: Has anyone obtained any kind of reliable performance data from RM2 swaps both stock power and overvolted?

On NiMH AAs I clocked one dart at 130fps!!

Just modded my Rayven with a pair of these motors... modded range varies from 40-55 feet.

So how do those possibly agree? Are we all even using the same "RM2" motor here? I really find the 4.8v 130fps hard to believe. When me and my UF friend did that test, we tried 2s and 3s and the 2s would NEVER have come anywhere close to 130fps! Seriously, the way they were revving and shooting, 130fps would be like a maverick shooting a hundred feet flat. No way and that was 7.4 volts, not 4.8.

The people running them on 3 fires(11.1) are not reporting the absolutely insane dart-melting speeds they should be reporting if they are already going fast enough to shoot 130fps at 4.8v.

Numbers from the 3s RM2 motor stryfe shooting stock elites, for what it's worth:
107.3
96.82
109.3
101.7
107.5
107.1
104.4
107.7
98.3
108.5
97.27
105.2
97.67

No evidence of excessive flywheel slip was present. Speed was audibly similar to the Stryfe motors (105fps @ 3s) which goes along with that.

Okay, extremely sorry guys, both for the editing and for the verbosity of posting... but such is being on the cutting (and bleeding) edge of development like this.

Just talked to UF friend with the fried solar motors... and he confirmed that the speed was INITIALLY much higher than during the chrono. So, the 100fps with stock batts is not bunk...

It turns out that people running these on voltages ABOVE 4.8V end up causing immediate brush damage, and thus they end up running like stock motors more or less...

[DerajareD]

Oops, didn't think of that.

On this subject: Has anyone obtained any kind of reliable performance data from RM2 swaps both stock power and overvolted?

So how do those possibly agree? Are we all even using the same "RM2" motor here? I really find the 4.8v 130fps hard to believe. When me and my UF friend did that test, we tried 2s and 3s and the 2s would NEVER have come anywhere close to 130fps! Seriously, the way they were revving and shooting, 130fps would be like a maverick shooting a hundred feet flat. No way and that was 7.4 volts, not 4.8.

The people running them on 3 fires(11.1) are not reporting the absolutely insane dart-melting speeds they should be reporting if they are already going fast enough to shoot 130fps at 4.8v.

Numbers from the 3s RM2 motor stryfe shooting stock elites, for what it's worth:
107.3
96.82
109.3
101.7
107.5
107.1
104.4
107.7
98.3
108.5
97.27
105.2
97.67

No evidence of excessive flywheel slip was present. Speed was audibly similar to the Stryfe motors (105fps @ 3s) which goes along with that.

Okay, extremely sorry guys, both for the editing and for the verbosity of posting... but such is being on the cutting (and bleeding) edge of development like this.

Just talked to UF friend with the fried solar motors... and he confirmed that the speed was INITIALLY much higher than during the chrono. So, the 100fps with stock batts is not bunk...

It turns out that people running these on voltages ABOVE 4.8V end up causing immediate brush damage, and thus they end up running like stock motors more or less...

Thanks for the response(s). So in short... use 'cades? You also mentioned Tamiya motors in a previous post and noted that they would require special "badass" batteries, if you don't mind my asking, what did you mean exactly? I'm assuming they're another kind of 130?

[torukmakto4]

Thanks for the response(s). So in short... use 'cades? You also mentioned Tamiya motors in a previous post and noted that they would require special "badass" batteries, if you don't mind my asking, what did you mean exactly? I'm assuming they're another kind of 130?

In short... yeah, I would stick to:

* Cades

* Hailfires or PS48 stock motors (Going on community experience and Darthrambo's testing, not personal experience)

* Bobololo/Coop's RC helicopter 180 motors

* Tamiya ... Dash (low voltage high current)

Yes, tha Tamiya dash motors (hyper dash, mach dash, plasma dash...) are high end, hot wound 130 motors. Think of the RM2, but more extreme - Tamiyas get you up into the 100+ fps band with a single cell lipo! They are also much better designed (carbon brush, mostly) than cheap motors and are quieter. This is what that NH user "azrael" is talking about.

The "badass batteries" refers to something that can supply the current required. Tamiyas will stall at 4 to 10 amps per motor. Trustfires are out.

[DerajareD]

In short... yeah, I would stick to:

* Cades

* Hailfires or PS48 stock motors (Going on community experience and Darthrambo's testing, not personal experience)

* Bobololo/Coop's RC helicopter 180 motors

* Tamiya ... Dash (low voltage high current)

Yes, tha Tamiya dash motors (hyper dash, mach dash, plasma dash...) are high end, hot wound 130 motors. Think of the RM2, but more extreme - Tamiyas get you up into the 100+ fps band with a single cell lipo! They are also much better designed (carbon brush, mostly) than cheap motors and are quieter. This is what that NH user "azrael" is talking about.

The "badass batteries" refers to something that can supply the current required. Tamiyas will stall at 4 to 10 amps per motor. Trustfires are out.

I just read Azrael's thread and did some of my own research. That'd be one expensive project to undertake and do well, even though the payoffs seem pretty substantial. I think I'm just gonna try running my stock motors into the ground before I think of doing any upgrades, especially since I try not use flywheel blasters to shoot at anything more than 25ft. away.

Thanks for all the info!

[teek42]

Has anyone gotten their hands on some of those "possibly barricade" motors yet to confirm their performance?

[torukmakto4]

Has anyone gotten their hands on some of those "possibly barricade" motors yet to confirm their performance?

Can you find a way to get them?

I couldn't find a distributor. I was actually thinking about contacting the manufacturer and asking for samples or something...

BTW

This is the SMC FN130A-2080 which I think is the barricade motor.
Fields are: model, wind, voltage, idle current, idle speed
3 gray fields are current, speed and torque at best efficiency point
Next 3 fields are point of max output power
Last 2 are stall current and stall torque.
The specs really do support the observations of performance a lot of nerfers have made, specifically the fast windup. At 7.5v (similar to 2s lithium) they have torque ratings similar to the lower end tamiya (I think tamiya's "under load" ratings are best efficiency point). The voltage rating up to 7.5 is a good indication of why they last absolutely forever, because going to 9.6 or 11.1 to get up into the desirable 100fps realm is not really much of an overvolt for them.

Also look at the stall current which is really quite respectable.

I think (assuming I am right about this motor) that the Barricade was a case similar to the Longshot and its huge plunger system, in that it was Nerf's first experiment with this new tech (flywheels) and there was a desire to overspecify motors and use something far torquier, more durable, capable of much larger power outputs and more demanding of batteries than could ever be used in the stock gun.

[teek42]

I think (assuming I am right about this motor) that the Barricade was a case similar to the Longshot and its huge plunger system, in that it was Nerf's first experiment with this new tech (flywheels) and there was a desire to overspecify motors and use something far torquier, more durable, capable of much larger power outputs and more demanding of batteries than could ever be used in the stock gun.

That makes a lot of sense. Building new concept blasters way overspec to ensure that you can get acceptable performance. It's unfortunate that those motors are such a pain to find though. They have to be out there somewhere.

[Boff]

Awesome stuff

Email sent to the manufacturer - I will let you know if they get back to me.