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Author Topic: Index of The Tenets  (Read 52822 times)
teek42

BLITZ squad organizer

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« Reply #105 on: November 26, 2012, 01:56:55 AM »

Id be willing to add my two cents to a rayven (and stryfe when it is released since they are very functionally similar?) tennent if i can get some time alloted to it. I use my 'ven every game that i am playing to "win", and know its pros and cons very well, as well as which mods are significant to its performance.
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Primary: SMG rapidstrike, MG rapidstrike, carnivore stampede, or Ertl pump action shotgun.
Secondary: Top rail blowgun (if applicable), sometimes a tetrastrike.
NnStar molle vest with paintball pod holsters and assorted pouches. Blue camo btu's.
Masturcief42

lol I'm teh mastur cief!

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« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2012, 06:12:41 PM »

So I have started on making a noobs guide to making a swarmpede. It's gonna take me some time to finish it/wait for parts to arrive so in the meantime I was going to work on the stampede tenant. Anyone what to help me? I pm'ed sixth Kira about it so feel free to pm or post here if you are interested in helping.
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Go save lives, donate blood.
gnomeofdoom
* Game Organizer

PVC Warrior

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« Reply #107 on: December 08, 2012, 04:07:21 AM »

Just want to make sure this idea of updating the tenets is still in the air and bring some attention to it from the rest of the community. As Spooky mentioned, I'll be more than willing to help out with the blowgun tenets. The semester is nearly done and I'll have some time on my hands in a couple weeks.
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HvZ Alumni Player -SUNY College at Oneonta // HvZ Moderator and Graduate student - SUNY Binghamton // One day faculty advisor for HvZ at a university???

Weapon: Blowgun:
I've run out of space here to list them, so just go to youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnomeofdoom314
reko0418


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« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2013, 02:48:56 AM »

Anybody have any of the newer blasters and feels like they would like to do a tenet on it?  A roughcut, snapfire 8, swarmfire or stryfe tenet might add something new.
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Primary: Stryfe of Badassary!
Secondary: pair of Strongarms
last resort: Dual Triads!
reko0418


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« Reply #109 on: March 21, 2013, 01:08:58 AM »

Bueller... Bueller... Bueller...
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Primary: Stryfe of Badassary!
Secondary: pair of Strongarms
last resort: Dual Triads!
Ross_Varn
* Game Organizer

Page of Bluff

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« Reply #110 on: March 21, 2013, 01:13:24 AM »

It's certainly possible that the community's metagame has moved on from scattered tenets in recognition of the individual's skill with their own blasters. I can't speak for everyone, but I think there's a reason we haven't seen any new tenets in a while.
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Lindenwood University - St. Charles MO
Loadout: Agile Wit
JPRoth1980


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« Reply #111 on: March 21, 2013, 05:47:04 AM »

Anybody have any of the newer blasters and feels like they would like to do a tenet on it?  A roughcut, snapfire 8, swarmfire or stryfe tenet might add something new.

The problem is, there's really not a whole lot to say about any of these blasters.

The Roughcut has no business being used for anything but lulz in HvZ.  Even underslung on a barrel, it primarily adds tacticoolness at the cost of significant weight.

Snapfires are, frankly, what newbies should be buying if they don't want to ever mod a blaster or spend more than $20.  But for the experienced player, the trigger feel is weird and sidearms don't add anything to the game at all--you're much better off with a useful integration so you aren't trying to load and sling under pressure, etc.

The Swarmfire needs to tenets as it is blisteringly monopurpose.  Remove shell, overvolt, spring swap if you're nasty, and use it to spam up close.  Done.

That just leaves the Stryfe.  And the issue with the Stryfe is that it is almost too universally useful, once modified.  Basically, you get long range, good rate of fire, semi-auto for ammo conservation, all in a little pistol-shaped package.  You can't really write tenets for it because the only thing you CAN'T do with it is spam darts into an onrushing horde.  The tenets wouldn't look so much like tenets as they would a mod guide.
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Zim

I'm a Brony, Got a problem with that?

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« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2013, 11:16:05 PM »

That just leaves the Stryfe...you can't really write tenets for it because the only thing you CAN'T do with it is spam darts into an onrushing horde. 
I typically hate dis-agreeing with anyone,but that is doing the stryfe a gross injustice. I often use a 36 rd drum in my stryfe,plus I hold the stryfe in my left hand pushing down the accel trigger. I then use only my right index finger to pull the trigger. I once shot 9 darts-per-second like this,and when you get good mag changes are super quick.I can typically spit between 60 and 100+ darts if the horde starts 70 or so ft away.Though, I suppose that also depends on the horde in question. And I have put to shame all full autos I've personaly come across with my stryfe. I am known as a "machine gunner" when I use just my stryfe.

In conclusion to my mini-rant,
stryfe+36rd drum+25rd drum+a crap-ton of all kinds of stick mags+skill= DART SPAMMING!
And it is my clearly biased opinion that the stryfe can do anything. If,however, a stryfe tennet needed to be written I think I could a fair job,so long as someone covered motor and battery replacment.
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torukmakto4

DANGER - Stored Energy

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« Reply #113 on: March 24, 2013, 02:04:55 AM »

only thing you CAN'T do with [a stryfe] is spam darts into an onrushing horde.

I don't want to beat this to death but I also disagree with that.

In stock form, it's true. However, this is not a question of "spamming darts into a horde", it is a question of very basic HVZ worthiness. A Stryfe with an old style (Pre A suffix) ammo lock simply cannot shoot fast enough to be a viable defense against anything but poorly organized unskilled zombies who haven't played before. Just throw 2 half decent geeks at this human. Zed one, bang, one stun. Zed two, "Oh shit, it's locked up". Human wasted.

But modified? Oh hell yeah it can spam just fine! The Stryfe has one of the nicest stock triggers of any flywheel semi. Even with stock motors (but decent batteries) it will hang with any pede without majorly falling on its face. Motor swaps, you can completely forget about any supposed lack of spam. I am somewhat extreme but my "stryfe" can hold 115fps as fast as I can hammer on it.
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CT-2406
Quartermaster of the Florida 501st

You are now entering The Dart Zone
JPRoth1980


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« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2013, 07:15:10 AM »

I typically hate dis-agreeing with anyone,but that is doing the stryfe a gross injustice. I often use a 36 rd drum in my stryfe,plus I hold the stryfe in my left hand pushing down the accel trigger. I then use only my right index finger to pull the trigger. I once shot 9 darts-per-second like this,and when you get good mag changes are super quick.I can typically spit between 60 and 100+ darts if the horde starts 70 or so ft away.Though, I suppose that also depends on the horde in question. And I have put to shame all full autos I've personaly come across with my stryfe. I am known as a "machine gunner" when I use just my stryfe.

That rate of fire is certainly impressive, but my own experiences tell me otherwise.  I'm not trying to say a Stryfe is bad, mind you--it is, with a few modifications, the best general-purpose inexpensive blaster you can find for HvZ purposes.  But again, from my own experiences, I have yet to see a Stryfe be able to keep up with a Nitron, Stampede, Vulcan, or Pyragon, which I would consider to be the "dart spammers."

Also, just for the record, if you have a 35-round drum that is keeping up with you pulling the trigger nine times in one second, be VERY nice to it.  That is largely unheard of, which is why you see people using 18-straights for Stampedes.

But modified? Oh hell yeah it can spam just fine! The Stryfe has one of the nicest stock triggers of any flywheel semi. Even with stock motors (but decent batteries) it will hang with any pede without majorly falling on its face. Motor swaps, you can completely forget about any supposed lack of spam. I am somewhat extreme but my "stryfe" can hold 115fps as fast as I can hammer on it.

Your Stryfe is certainly more extreme than any I would expect to give advice on, to be fair.  With Solarbotics motors and 2 Trustfires (which, to be honest, I would consider to be taking the blaster up to the highest level attainable by "most" people), I can fire at a rate of about 4 shots per second without noticeable slowdown, but any faster and things get kind of hinky.  Maybe that counts as spamming and I'm just spoiled by my time using blasters with a much higher rate of fire.  Smiley

The real problem with the Stryfe, though, is how utterly unworthy it is for HvZ in its stock form.  And it's not just the ammo lock, although that's a huge part of it.  The thermistor in the Stryfe is beefy.  Annoyingly so, to the point where it was shutting the blaster down after a few seconds running at 8.4V.  Admittedly, I wound up stripping everything but the acceleration trigger, battery pack, and (new) motors, but the Stryfe is rather like the Stampede (or the Nitron, but hey, bias) in that they both suck in stock form but are damned useful blasters when fully modded.
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torukmakto4

DANGER - Stored Energy

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« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2013, 10:45:50 AM »

The real problem with the Stryfe, though, is how utterly unworthy it is for HvZ in its stock form. ...the ammo lock, the thermistor ...the Stryfe is rather like the Stampede (or the Nitron, but hey, bias) in that they both suck in stock form but are damned useful blasters when fully modded.

Exactly.

Back on topic with the tenets discussion, you brought up some good points about the "jack of all trades" Stryfe and "monopurpose" Swarmfire. First of all, I should note that these are closer than those descriptions imply; both are, in fact, mod-required guns. The Swarmfire, especially, has very little HVZ use outside of modding.

As to "monopurpose" or "tenets would read like a mod guide" being reasons to not HAVE a tenets entry for these, I disagree. This structure exists to inform people on how some given HVZ weapon should be properly used and collect others' experience playing them. If the swarmfire is monopurpose and is best used by trashing the shell and adding a pistol grip or mounting underbarrel for a close range SMG,  then perhaps that should go in the tenets entry for it. Same with the Stryfe; while it may be an archetypal primary of the assault rifle variety, and able to do just about anything equally well with very little in terms of weaknesses, I don't think that means there is nothing to be said on how best to use it. Modding would need to be mentioned. In many ways I think it's a similar situation to the pede, which does have a tenets entry from back when we still did tenets...

On that note...
It's certainly possible that the community's metagame has moved on from scattered tenets in recognition of the individual's skill with their own blasters. I can't speak for everyone, but I think there's a reason we haven't seen any new tenets in a while.

My theory is that we have moved away from writing many new tenets because we have finally got to the point where there is an inherent and unspoken understanding of what makes a good primary. There is sometimes talk elsewhere of how HVZ has been transformed recently (past 2 years or so) by the "rifleman concept" of universal, interchangeable players and the same default role and approach that just works too well to ignore. Notice, we don't see many people doing things like they did in 2010 and prior. Dual mavericks? Recon pistol with 6-round mags? Bolt action LS? What about primarying a Firefly, or a Berserker? I saw 0 of these things in my last game, amongst a sea of Rampages, Alphas, Rayvens, Stryfes, Stampedes, Raiders and very occasional pistol or SMG-only fast-moving types. In general, people nowadays see things with notable shortcomings, and they shun them. Years ago, we tolerated suboptimal in one area for advantages in another, and as a result we needed tenets to help choose a weapon and work along with it.

Specialists now are people who don't need to read tenets to know what to do. Whether they are an ace shot with a blowgun, someone competent in every aspect of vulcan usage and ownership, or a sock ninja... they are exceptions to the rule, dedicated individuals. Not everyday players. And, humans are just... smarter. Your generic humans are not running Furyfires and a handful of squished darts anymore.
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CT-2406
Quartermaster of the Florida 501st

You are now entering The Dart Zone
Jkfyeung


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« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2013, 03:55:19 PM »

I don't think that human roles are as inherent as we might like. What about the new players who don't understand the level of gameplay that we already have second-nature?
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Katyusha


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« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2013, 05:03:39 PM »

I don't think that human roles are as inherent as we might like. What about the new players who don't understand the level of gameplay that we already have second-nature?

The thing is, a lot of the newbies may not understand HvZ tactics well at all, but they've probably played enough FPS games to understand the value of a multirole assault rifle.  I think a lot of people would have preferred assault rifles in the old days, but they didn't exist and so people specialized out of necessity since there was no such thing as a true multirole primary back then.
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"Sir, how many darts does this blaster fire per second?"

"all of them"
Zim

I'm a Brony, Got a problem with that?

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« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2013, 08:30:08 PM »

That rate of fire is certainly impressive, but..., from my own experiences, I have yet to see a Stryfe be able to keep up with a Nitron, Stampede, Vulcan, or Pyragon, which I would consider to be the "dart spammers."
I can utterley shame any slam-fire I've went up against, same for the stampede. As for the Nitron...THAT'S the ONE exception,as I have not been able to best highly overvolted Nitrons. Stock Nitrons I can handle.

As for lack of tennets, everyone just uses multi-purpose blasters. The ELITE line has royal screwed up any one-weapon-specialist. You want slam-fire? How about AR-15? Tiny pistol? Semi-auto? THEY ALL SHOOT THE SAME! at least stock. Anymore, for anti-modders at least, it's a choice of personal taste. The only reason we should still have tennets is for potential modders. They are the ones who keep the different roles alive. I've seen scouts with any elite, "long-range"-shooters with any elite,and they just swap roles. And as for the stryfe, I can't think of anything it CAN'T do! When modded. I have practicallly memorized "base" human roles,and nobody follows them anymore.
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