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Author Topic: The Zombie Survival Guide  (Read 45728 times)
Mzzkc
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2011, 03:04:45 AM »

If a dart travels three times farther from a modded blaster than it does stock, it has (roughly) three times the velocity. It would be no easier to dodge a dart at 60ft from such a modded Longshot than at 20ft from a stock one, since the amount of time you have to dodge is the same.

Darts slow down pretty fast thanks to wind resistance, and then there's your standard accuracy issue. The only time you really have to worry about getting hit by a dart from 60' off is when you're facing someone who has practiced hitting targets that far out. Even then, a dodge at that range is a simple feat. Of course, when you get into that 20-30 foot range, modded blasters become slightly more lethal. But if you're playing zombie right, that shouldn't worry you at all.

But it's the same exact mechanism. Literally, the same thing. You pull the handle back, you push it forward. You can have one hand on the trigger, and the other on the slide/bolt. They work the same way. The shotgun mod is pure convenience, allowing you to hold the blaster in a more natural manner, but it doesn't really affect rate of fire.

The biggest difference is steadying the blaster to fire. If you jockey the priming bar of a Longshot during combat, I can guarantee your accuracy is going straight to hell, even with practice and making use of the stock.

Any top/bottom-slide primer give you the advantage of keeping your blaster steady during priming, which is invaluable while kiting--or doing anything, really.

If we're talking unmodded, then a Stampede is a Longshot with a higher rate of fire. So why rate it lower then? 'It makes you feel badass' is hardly a fair assessment of the capabilities of the blaster itself.

Overconfidence kills. Plain and simple.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 03:06:44 AM by Mzzkc » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 03:17:27 AM »

Darts slow down pretty fast thanks to wind resistance, and then there's your standard accuracy issue. The only time you really have to worry about getting hit by a dart from 60' off is when you're facing someone who has practiced hitting targets that far out. Even then, a dodge at that range is a simple feat. Of course, when you get into that 20-30 foot range, modded blasters become slightly more lethal. But if you're playing zombie right, that shouldn't worry you at all.
For games that allow blowguns, I'd call 60-120' more blowgun range than blaster range. Most people at least here at Purdue run with some sort of blowgun, either a separate blowgun or one mounted to the blaster. If they are trying to hit from that range with a blaster, then they are just silly. Most blasters nowadays, especially with NERF's hardon for inverted plungers, can barely hit 60' modded with really only modded Longshots, singled arrow blasters not withstanding, routinely breaking 60'+ with the kind of performance to actually hit something at that range
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Purdue HvZ
Fall '09, Spring'11 - Extracted | Spring '10, Fall '10, Fall'11 - Turned at extraction | Spring '12 - Moderator | Fall '12 - IT Committee Head | Spring '13 - Turned at extraction | Fall '13 - Turned at extraction

Primaries: Rapidstrike, Blowgun
Secondaries: Stormfire, Socks
Dyslexda
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2011, 03:38:45 AM »

If a dart travels three times farther from a modded blaster than it does stock, it has (roughly) three times the velocity. It would be no easier to dodge a dart at 60ft from such a modded Longshot than at 20ft from a stock one, since the amount of time you have to dodge is the same.

Apologies for the extremely personal anecdote here, but, for instance, when I went to Mizzou's game, I spent ~20 minutes dodging humans blowgun potshots at ~60 foot ranges. The darts were more than capable of traveling that far. When something is in the air for a longer time, though, you have a better ability to mentally compute its trajectory. Even if it's the same time, it's still a longer distance traveled, giving you more data on its trajectory.

Quote
If we're talking unmodded, then a Stampede is a Longshot with a higher rate of fire. So why rate it lower then? 'It makes you feel badass' is hardly a fair assessment of the capabilities of the blaster itself.

Because stock Stampedes blow massive monkey chunks. Heavy, bulky, unwieldy, and their RoF stock really isn't much faster, than a Longshot's. Fully modded it is indeed a fearsome blaster, but stock? Pretty much a joke.

Quote
Extremely personal anecdotes are hardly a solid basis for a catch-all guide. I've seen Raider users be taken out by a single zombie when they jammed on the first shot- does that mean the Raider should be described as needing only one zombie to take down? Not really. We should focus on the comparative capabilities of the blaster itself.

News flash: Ultimately, everything on here is anecdotal. I don't believe a comprehensive study regarding HvZ has ever been done. As such, we compare as much anecdotal evidence as possible to reach a conclusion. The conclusion Chev and myself have reached, through witnessing 1v1 takedowns, is that it is most definitely possible. Likely? No. Probable? Most definitely not. But possible, maybe one time out of ten? Yes. If it's possible one shot out of ten, as a zombie, you take it...because really, the other nine stuns don't mean jack if you get that one kill.
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 06:50:31 AM »

Because stock Stampedes blow massive monkey chunks. Heavy, bulky, unwieldy, and their RoF stock really isn't much faster, than a Longshot's. Fully modded it is indeed a fearsome blaster, but stock? Pretty much a joke.
Agreed. The only reason I'd want a stampede would be for the 18 dart clips.
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Loadout
Primary: Berserker, centre barrel rebarrelled to take darts.
Secondary: Rebarrelled Big Salvo to take darts / Barricade (stock).
Sidearm: Badly Well rebarrelled Element (fixed it! Cheesy ).
solmssteinke


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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2011, 09:06:22 AM »

Well, I will say this...a longshot, while certainly not the most common blaster at our school, is certainly still quite common. I know quite a few people with one....also, ours can be (and are) modified to go at least 70 feet, perhaps 100 if you brass-breach 'em. So I would say no, the Longshot can be modded to be pretty darn fearsome, even more so than the Nitefinder. Some of our longshots, such as mine, require heavier, tougher darts so as to not destroy the foam and such...as for slam-fire, I will merely say this. During the most recent final battle at Geneseo, I held down my trigger and moved that bolt as fast as I could...the rate of fire was damn near a raider, and a hell of a lot more accurate...I almost never had to resort to my sword until the zeds got smart and started mobbing my part of the human defense (which also had many other good players).

So TBH, I really think in the case of an unmodded or lightly modded longshot, one zombie MAY be sufficient...in the sense that one may be sufficient to take down a Recon. More likely you'll need two to do you pincer move, PROVIDED that both of you can get close enough without getting stunned...if it IS heavily modified, your chances are that much less - because some longshots are pretty darn close to being a sniper rifle equivalent in Nerf.

Also, with regard to the Stampede...while ridiculously hard to modify, if you DO manage it, it is absolutely lethal as a zombie stunner...the rate of fire can be improved in addition to the range...Dyslexda hits it right on the head here.

~SS~
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Title: Redemptor or "Hawk"
School: SUNY Geneseo

Primary: Nerf longshot modified with replacement springs and removed air restrictor
Secondary: Nerf sword, double-bladed
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2011, 09:33:45 AM »

as for slam-fire, I will merely say this. During the most recent final battle at Geneseo, I held down my trigger and moved that bolt as fast as I could...the rate of fire was damn near a raider, and a hell of a lot more accurate...
At first, after reading this, I was like "Slam fire LS? That can't be right."
Then I was like "Wait, it could work if the locks were removed."
Then I tried it on my LS, which has the locks removed, and it didn't work. So, I'm assuming you got a weird longshot or something, cause they aren't built to slam-fire.
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Loadout
Primary: Berserker, centre barrel rebarrelled to take darts.
Secondary: Rebarrelled Big Salvo to take darts / Barricade (stock).
Sidearm: Badly Well rebarrelled Element (fixed it! Cheesy ).
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2011, 11:53:41 AM »

Overconfidence kills. Plain and simple.

Which can happen with any blaster. It's simply wrong to say 'this blaster is good, but it will make you overconfident, so it's bad'. That's an extremely poor assessment of its physical capabilities. I would assert that someone willing to spend $50 on the game is probably taking it more seriously, and their confidence is more likely to be justified. But in the end, guessing as to the probable psychology of the person wielding it is misleading, and it certainly doesn't reflect on the capabilities of the blaster itself.

Quote from: Dyslexda
Because stock Stampedes blow massive monkey chunks. Heavy, bulky, unwieldy, and their RoF stock really isn't much faster, than a Longshot's. Fully modded it is indeed a fearsome blaster, but stock? Pretty much a joke.

Again: Stock, it's a Longshot with a higher ROF, at the cost of being heavier. Why does that make it 'blow massive monkey chunks'? Would you say the Longshot is even worse?

Quote from: Dyslexda
News flash: Ultimately, everything on here is anecdotal. I don't believe a comprehensive study regarding HvZ has ever been done. As such, we compare as much anecdotal evidence as possible to reach a conclusion. The conclusion Chev and myself have reached, through witnessing 1v1 takedowns, is that it is most definitely possible. Likely? No. Probable? Most definitely not. But possible, maybe one time out of ten? Yes. If it's possible one shot out of ten, as a zombie, you take it...because really, the other nine stuns don't mean jack if you get that one kill.

Like I said, I've seen someone with a Raider take on a single zombie, miss on his first shot, jam on his second, and get eaten. The probability is pretty low, but if you're just going for might-happen-one-time-in-ten-maybe then from such an anecdote we could reasonably conclude that one zombie is a match for a Raider. It can happen with absolutely any blaster, so I don't think 10% probability is a good value to base these statistics on- it just doesn't yield any useful information.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 11:55:49 AM by catbarf » Logged
solmssteinke


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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2011, 12:24:02 PM »

At first, after reading this, I was like "Slam fire LS? That can't be right."
Then I was like "Wait, it could work if the locks were removed."
Then I tried it on my LS, which has the locks removed, and it didn't work. So, I'm assuming you got a weird longshot or something, cause they aren't built to slam-fire.

Lol...it takes a certain amount of strength, especially with my LS (which has a Nitefinder spring in addition to an older, stronger LS spring). But I managed it...at least until someone busted the mechanism that holds the clip in place when you cock the weapon. Now I have to hold the damn clip in place when I cock, so slam firing is no longer possible. That said, what I believe I specified was that it could be fired NEARLY as fast as a Raider, not as fast.
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Title: Redemptor or "Hawk"
School: SUNY Geneseo

Primary: Nerf longshot modified with replacement springs and removed air restrictor
Secondary: Nerf sword, double-bladed
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2011, 12:35:42 PM »

Oh yeah, I can fire mine pretty fast (I have the same spring combo as you, hi five!), but I can't slam fire it.
That being said, I don't even slam fire my raider. It doesn't always eat darts, but, I can fire it almost as fast without slam firing it. I'd rather have the slight decrease in fire rate than a significant increase in dart nommage and jamming. That being said, you can also fire further when you don't slam fire.
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Loadout
Primary: Berserker, centre barrel rebarrelled to take darts.
Secondary: Rebarrelled Big Salvo to take darts / Barricade (stock).
Sidearm: Badly Well rebarrelled Element (fixed it! Cheesy ).
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2011, 12:37:18 PM »

When I say one zombie is sufficient, I didn't mean to imply "one zombie can kill a fool using this blaster, all the time, he is doomed," or "one zombie will probably kill this guy unless he gets lucky," I meant that it is possible as you, a single zombie, to kill this guy, without waiting for backup. Now, if another zombie is on the way and he'll get there before the humie vanishes, should you wait? Of course! Two zombies are always better than one. But if you're by yourself, and you see a dude with a Raider+drum barrel in one direction, and a Longshot in the other, go for the Longshot.

(Also, if Raiders jammed often enough that 1/10 times the zombie won, I say charge that shit. I'll take those odds. But they don't. Longshots and Recons, however, can't just fill the air in front of them with foam, and 1/10 odds are probably biased in favor of the human - I would rate it more as 1/3).

One zombie is sufficient = 1 zombie has a significant chance of killing this guy, so if you're one zombie, sure, you can go for him. Multiple zombies = you're just wasting your time, wait for backup or find another target. I apologize for the confusion, perhaps I should have defined my terms.

One more thing, defending my use of anecdotal data: There has been no systemic collection of statistical information regarding this game. No gigantic table "in X encounters involving Y zombies against Z humans wielding A blasters, zombies got at least one kill B% of the time", no lovely probability distribution curve for kills vs. blasters vs. numbers. All data, for any guide, is going to be anecdotal, and so all advice is going to be based on either anecdotal data or pure theory. I've used both, but tried to rely on practical experience whenever I can. You may dismiss that as simple "anecdotes" and thus not worthwhile,  but I'd say it's more valuable than a guide based entirely on theory. Further, when I say "I saw this happen," I don't mean "one zombie once rushed a guy with a Vulcan and nommed him because the fool hadn't turned it on," (true story) I mean "With no special circumstances, and (perhaps) on multiple occasions, zombies have killed or gotten close to killing this blaster." Bottom line: Don't knock experience.
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Om nom, kiddos.

Screw those lists of blasters. Being a zombie is just better.
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2011, 01:26:52 PM »

One more thing, defending my use of anecdotal data: There has been no systemic collection of statistical information regarding this game. No gigantic table "in X encounters involving Y zombies against Z humans wielding A blasters, zombies got at least one kill B% of the time", no lovely probability distribution curve for kills vs. blasters vs. numbers. All data, for any guide, is going to be anecdotal, and so all advice is going to be based on either anecdotal data or pure theory. I've used both, but tried to rely on practical experience whenever I can. You may dismiss that as simple "anecdotes" and thus not worthwhile,  but I'd say it's more valuable than a guide based entirely on theory. Further, when I say "I saw this happen," I don't mean "one zombie once rushed a guy with a Vulcan and nommed him because the fool hadn't turned it on," (true story) I mean "With no special circumstances, and (perhaps) on multiple occasions, zombies have killed or gotten close to killing this blaster." Bottom line: Don't knock experience.
Maybe we should start taking precise data down. Y'know, for graph shiggles.
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Loadout
Primary: Berserker, centre barrel rebarrelled to take darts.
Secondary: Rebarrelled Big Salvo to take darts / Barricade (stock).
Sidearm: Badly Well rebarrelled Element (fixed it! Cheesy ).
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2011, 01:43:24 PM »

Maybe we should start taking precise data down. Y'know, for graph shiggles.

I'd love to as well but it's logistically impossible. :/
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Om nom, kiddos.

Screw those lists of blasters. Being a zombie is just better.
catbarf


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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2011, 02:27:02 PM »

When I say one zombie is sufficient, I didn't mean to imply "one zombie can kill a fool using this blaster, all the time, he is doomed," or "one zombie will probably kill this guy unless he gets lucky," I meant that it is possible as you, a single zombie, to kill this guy, without waiting for backup. Now, if another zombie is on the way and he'll get there before the humie vanishes, should you wait? Of course! Two zombies are always better than one. But if you're by yourself, and you see a dude with a Raider+drum barrel in one direction, and a Longshot in the other, go for the Longshot.

(Also, if Raiders jammed often enough that 1/10 times the zombie won, I say charge that shit. I'll take those odds. But they don't. Longshots and Recons, however, can't just fill the air in front of them with foam, and 1/10 odds are probably biased in favor of the human - I would rate it more as 1/3).

One zombie is sufficient = 1 zombie has a significant chance of killing this guy, so if you're one zombie, sure, you can go for him. Multiple zombies = you're just wasting your time, wait for backup or find another target. I apologize for the confusion, perhaps I should have defined my terms.

One more thing, defending my use of anecdotal data: There has been no systemic collection of statistical information regarding this game. No gigantic table "in X encounters involving Y zombies against Z humans wielding A blasters, zombies got at least one kill B% of the time", no lovely probability distribution curve for kills vs. blasters vs. numbers. All data, for any guide, is going to be anecdotal, and so all advice is going to be based on either anecdotal data or pure theory. I've used both, but tried to rely on practical experience whenever I can. You may dismiss that as simple "anecdotes" and thus not worthwhile,  but I'd say it's more valuable than a guide based entirely on theory. Further, when I say "I saw this happen," I don't mean "one zombie once rushed a guy with a Vulcan and nommed him because the fool hadn't turned it on," (true story) I mean "With no special circumstances, and (perhaps) on multiple occasions, zombies have killed or gotten close to killing this blaster." Bottom line: Don't knock experience.

For the most part I agree with you, and I don't mean to belittle your efforts as you've obviously put a lot of work into this, I just mean that I think there may be a better method of assigning numbers to various blasters that indicates their threat level. A lot of the blasters are rated '1 zombie', which isn't terribly helpful when Mavericks, Longshots, and Recons are all in the same group. Most blasters have a minor but still present chance of the user getting eaten- that's just the nature of the game.
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2011, 03:01:21 PM »

Impossible is nothing?
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Loadout
Primary: Berserker, centre barrel rebarrelled to take darts.
Secondary: Rebarrelled Big Salvo to take darts / Barricade (stock).
Sidearm: Badly Well rebarrelled Element (fixed it! Cheesy ).
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2011, 04:56:34 PM »

For the most part I agree with you, and I don't mean to belittle your efforts as you've obviously put a lot of work into this, I just mean that I think there may be a better method of assigning numbers to various blasters that indicates their threat level. A lot of the blasters are rated '1 zombie', which isn't terribly helpful when Mavericks, Longshots, and Recons are all in the same group. Most blasters have a minor but still present chance of the user getting eaten- that's just the nature of the game.

That's totally legitimate. To be honest, the blaster thing was a last minute addition and really I spent less time there than on any other section, mostly because blasters don't concern me. But the "numbers rating" thing isn't a scientific "here is my opinion as to where this blaster stands relative to the others," it's a much more soft "this is the minimum number of zombies needed to kill a person with this blaster." That sort of classification will put the Recon, the Maverick, and the Longshot in the same group. The difficulty in facing a blaster is found more in the description of its characteristics in HvZ.
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Om nom, kiddos.

Screw those lists of blasters. Being a zombie is just better.
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