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Author Topic: Limiting zombie kills  (Read 4306 times)
snowboarder56438


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« on: November 15, 2011, 11:36:33 pm »

I am currently in a game at my university of around 2,000 students. 240ish are playing the game and i was one of 3 OZ's who all didn't get notified until 3 hours into the start of the game. Now as OZ we had nothing special except that we were invisible on the boards for a day but we still had to wear our armbands as zombies. I went out the first day and racked up some 20 kills the next day i received an E-mail (http://redd.it/ma5x3) from the MOD asking me to stop because i would end the game earlier than planned. What do you all think on the process of limiting how many people a zombie can kill. Another thing we had no missions so humans could sit in their rooms forever.
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torukmakto4

Inhuman Resistance

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 12:44:05 am »

I am currently in a game at my university of around 2,000 students. 240ish are playing the game and i was one of 3 OZ's who all didn't get notified until 3 hours into the start of the game. Now as OZ we had nothing special except that we were invisible on the boards for a day but we still had to wear our armbands as zombies. I went out the first day and racked up some 20 kills the next day i received an E-mail (http://redd.it/ma5x3) from the MOD asking me to stop because i would end the game earlier than planned. What do you all think on the process of limiting how many people a zombie can kill. Another thing we had no missions so humans could sit in their rooms forever.

Well, I don't know what to say about the validity of the mods' fears. Most good Oscar Zacks in a game that size can rack up 20 or more kills on day 1. Our recent game was comparable (251 humans = 22? OZ kills). It all depends on how good your humans are, how many clueless Maverick-wielding newbies are involved compared to seasoned vets and how effective those players are as zombies once killed. If you had a massive horde organization suddenly materialize out of those kills while the humans were still blundering around and dropping like flies, 20 geeks on day 1 would be a concern - but if your new horde was just a loose pack of former Mavericks against a tight militarized Resistance, 20 geeks is nothing. Most games fall somewhere in between, like ours (several squad leaders and their people committed suicide and formed a very deadly horde, but the Resistance matched its every move).

And as to limiting kills in general, I don't like it for ordinary zombies or OZs who are not covert. Revealing a covert "fake human" type OZ because too many people get wasted on the first day is one thing, but telling an OZ to just stop killing (i.e. stop being a zombie) is another. It's analogous to restricting the weapons used by humans, which is also something I vehemently oppose. It's artificial interference with the flow of the game that really points to an underlying problem - perhaps you have too many OZs, your humans are clueless... (or in my example of human weapons being limited, maybe your horde lacks tactical skill and should get some help organizing, or you need more OZs to get a good start, or you need shorter stuns or more difficult missions or...).

However, the lack of missions is a problem. A major problem. Missions are necessary. Missions are most of HVZ. Humans have to have something to fight for, and zombies have to have something to stop the humans from doing. Otherwise, as you say, humans hide. It's only realistic... in an apocalyptic situation, survivors would have to take steps to secure their own fate beyond just hiding. If they don't have that sort of pressing realistic need to work to secure their own fate (food, ammo, rescue/extraction, help a scientist with the cure... anything that's typically a mission objective), what are they supposed to go outside the wire for?

About all I can think of is zombie hunting, which is a pointless, dangerous and generally very stupid thing to do in a ZPAW. (That goes for zombies as well; who are they supposed to go out and hunt? The few who are dumb enough to go out looking to bag themselves a few zeds? No one worth killing will be out there.)

I can't think of HVZ without squads, missions, mission objectives, strategy surrounding those objectives, bounties on people's heads (including mine, as a member of a well known squad), odd goodies hid by mods who lead us on a wild goose chase (in our game, a melee weapon is hidden somewhere every round) and of course a final mission.
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solmssteinke


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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 01:16:06 pm »

Quite frankly, I disapprove of micromanaging. If the game ends early because the zeds did well, then it ends early. I'll take 3 awesome days over 5 shitty days.
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Sklover
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 12:32:35 am »

Quite frankly, I disapprove of micromanaging. If the game ends early because the zeds did well, then it ends early. I'll take 3 awesome days over 5 shitty days.
This exactly!

The best way to moderate a game is to set up the foundation and let the waves roll by. Some times moderators have to make decisions to change missions or plots during the game, but they shouldn't micromanage the game flow in it self. They need to be flexible and come up with contingencies. There are always ways to slow down humans or zombies without them even knowing.

I should hope that you send this to your game moderators so that they can develop and become better moderators. If they want.
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solmssteinke


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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 08:58:57 am »

My thanks for the endorsement Tongue
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Zuchu


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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 05:59:24 pm »

Sounds like your mods are playing "statistics, how to zombify humans linearly over time" rather than "humans vs zombies."  Sheesh, we had a zombie here at OSU get 20 kills on the first day and the mods pretty much just were giving him high fives.  He directly or indirectly zombified 4 of the 12 leaders of "THE Human Resistance" (including me) in the first 10 hours of the game.  So if you break the game early, your mods should just roll with it and have fun.

P.S. you need missions, they are the best part of HvZ, to repeat what others have said here.
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solmssteinke


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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 09:19:35 pm »

I think the reason for micromanaging is so the mods can put in more missions....or else they want to adhere to a schedule. TBH, if they want to have more missions, they should move the missions to be sooner, rather than interfere with the game dynamic. That was why I got pissed when our head mod micromanaged - and the game turned out to be rather easy for the humans. Of course, much of it was due to the crappy weather that no one went out in - but some was I'm sure due to the micromanaging.
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Norm


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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 04:32:29 pm »

At BG, OZs get to wear their bandanas on their arms or legs like humans, and are marked on the site as humans until either they get five kills or until noon of the first day.
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Brogi


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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 07:53:33 pm »

OSU ran into a similar situation this past game. The answer? Send the Horde after Bro-tential. No one will get turned for 3 days.
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UMASSAmherstHvZ


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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 10:35:47 pm »

Hi admin from UMASS Amherst here,

A lot of admins/mods don't realize that once the game starts, it is up to the players to decide how it goes. If you meddle around with the game in fear that the zombies will overtake the humans and prevent them from biting or hand out mass-vaccines in a response to a massive zombie victory in a mission, people will stop playing. Once you start messing around and rolling back or preventing the accomplishments of one side it cheapens the game and it will reflect badly on it. As admins/mods, when the game starts you have to remain impartial and enforce the rules, not bend them in a reactionary manner. This is what pre-game planning is for. If it looks like the game will end early, I suggest you let it. In my experience playing several games and now running one, the most hardcore human players that keep the game running and fun for everyone are born out of the desperation of an almost certain early zombie victory. Just let the players play the game, don't meddle.

Just my two-cents.
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yuiikari


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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 04:16:30 am »

At Western Michigan, our administration became somewhat infamous for staging general resets (usually because of poor planning on their part, either in terms of missions or severely messing up on Night One), allowing those that died to return to life (we have a better system now, that involves resurrection through buyback, and it works great for our game), to the point that it was generally assumed that this would occur when something went awry.  This system worked (the zombies generally regarded it as a win, and many humans chose to stay dead), though it was kind of a mess overall, and I hope it doesn't happen again (two games and counting...!).

That said, we never told a zombie to stop killing so many folks (I don't know that many hit twenty, but things are more straightforward, without the great and powerful business), and generally let play proceed as it will.  Night One casualties are almost always new or zombie-centric players, and it works well to force players to run undead sometimes, because this game does have two halves (and occasionally three, but that's a bit more theoretical at the moment), and quitting the game because you can't use your big gun helps no one.

The point is, if one zombie is good enough, he or she deserves all the kills she can get, and the humans should have played better in the first place, or learn to walk on the weird side of life (it also helps that at Western our hardcore zombie population is heavily female, and cute at that!).
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 06:31:24 am »

President from the Kutztown, PA game here.

When I first started playing the game (Fall 2009), we had to reset because so many new players needed questions answered and such. We haven't had to do that since but we have had many instances where our human players have requested a reset because of massive zombie numbers. Before this last Fall game (2011), we had about 50-70 players at a time. We had about 160 players play this time and for the first time ever the zombies acted as an organized horde. Their organization allowed them to tag about 15-20 people a day for a week (we play for a month usually). No one got over 15 tags, but some of our humans requested that we slow down the zombies in some way.

We opted to not do anything except increase the rewards for the missions because we realized that any one of them could be an endgame scenario. We ended up playing all 4 weeks and in the final mission we had 5 survivors and about 140 zombies. If we (the moderators) had messed with the dynamics of the game at all, no one would have had as much fun as they did. HvZ is an organic experience and every game should play out differently and the leadership of the game should let it evolve on its own.*

*If there is a problem with the way some people are playing though (D-bad and such) moderators should take action. We try to play it as the only job the moderators have is to make sure the rules are followed; everything else is up to the players.
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Ozymandias
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2012, 07:09:08 pm »

Its better to have too many zombies then too many humans, because in case of too many zeds you can do cure missions. Too many humans, and you have to ask for volunteers.
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bedmano


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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 07:38:04 pm »

Its better to have too many zombies then too many humans, because in case of too many zeds you can do cure missions. Too many humans, and you have to ask for volunteers.

Or set up a certain death mission. Those are always fun.
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Frosty_022
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 09:40:43 am »

I believe that it is ok to ask the OZs to limit their kills to say about 10-15 on the first day
but other then that all zombies should have free reign.

Also you absolutly have to have missions or the game just falls apart
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