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Author Topic: Let's Look at Secondaries - A Guide  (Read 1973 times)
Rogue

NerfRevolution.com Co-Owner...and BAMF

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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 09:52:43 PM »

I don't see why magstrike isn't on top tier besides the fact that it needs extra mags. It is out of production(but still are on ebay all the time) and have the fastest firing rate of any blaster. Its compact, and requires no modification to be used like a B0SS. Vulcans require new motors, swarms require all those batteries. The magstrike also has an incredibly low jamming ratio, and can be reloaded on the spot if you are the proud owner of extra clips(which are just a tad rarer than stampede clips).
I love mine(obviously) as its the workhorse of my arsenal. When zombies hear it go off they just back off like nobodies business...

THIS^^^^^
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torukmakto4

Inhuman Resistance

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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2012, 10:47:40 PM »

I don't see why magstrike isn't on top tier... requires no modification to be used like a B0SS. ...The magstrike also has an incredibly low jamming ratio, and can be reloaded on the spot if you are the proud owner of extra clips...
All excellent points, especially the no-mod one.

...the fastest firing rate of any blaster.

Which can be a liability. Very rarely do you need 900RPM (gen 3) or 600-750RPM (standard) for anything. And without custom 20 round clips (modding) you are in very serious danger if you need to engage anything more than a single threat in an emergency scenario (this may be a lot different if you are skirmishing or engaging a target you are well aware of beforehand).

Its compact... swarms require all those batteries.
Batteries which can be placed anywhere, and are about a quarter the size of the MS's extra bulk compared to a swarmpistol in the worst case (lots of big Ni-cd cells). In the better case (14500 or a small Li-po setup) the batteries could conceivably be mounted on the gun without a significant change in bulk.

And as someone who uses a swarmpistol I can say that no, a MS is not more compact. Unless you are using lead-acid batteries and a shell on the swarmy, it won't ever be as physically big as a MS with the bladder housing mounted nor as unwieldy to use holstered. There was a pro MS operator here a while back and he used (IIRC) a messenger bag with the MS and some socks stuffed in, and the bladder housing stuck out.

Vulcans require new motors
That is not so. I know that all everyone remembers from my Elite Vulcan build post was that huge motor, but in all reality you only need a motor swap when you want 500RPM or more on a beefier spring than the OMW 2.0, which is about 1% of vulcan builds. Stock 360s are good to get 600RPM out of a stock spring or 500 out of a 2.0 before voltage starts getting excessive.

Additionally, vulcans and magstrikes are as apples/oranges as you could get about automatic weapons and I don't know why the vulcan was mentioned in a secondary thread, unless that was just about dakka factor.
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CT-2406
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Masturcief42

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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 11:08:30 PM »

That is not so. I know that all everyone remembers from my Elite Vulcan build post was that huge motor, but in all reality you only need a motor swap when you want 500RPM or more on a beefier spring than the OMW 2.0, which is about 1% of vulcan builds. Stock 360s are good to get 600RPM out of a stock spring or 500 out of a 2.0 before voltage starts getting excessive.
Very true. Mine has no motor swap and has the 2.0 spring with 19v running through it. Works awesome. Kicks ass, but i use my stampede/At as a primary.
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Cazzums
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 12:03:14 AM »

...my Elite Vulcan build post was that huge motor, but in all reality you only need a motor swap when you want 500RPM or more on a beefier spring than the OMW 2.0, which is about 1% of vulcan builds. Stock 360s are good to get 600RPM out of a stock spring or 500 out of a 2.0 before voltage starts getting excessive.

Additionally, vulcans and magstrikes are as apples/oranges as you could get about automatic weapons and I don't know why the vulcan was mentioned in a secondary thread, unless that was just about dakka factor.

I meant for the same ROF/secondary fit, the magstrike is air powered(no batteries or wiring) and can be swung around or thrown/dropped(if need be) without the same amount of fear as that of a swarm pistol. I like to play ruff with my toys and run ragged when zombies are about, and I've always worried about stuff like crashing into someone with my stampede or falling and landing on my rayven.

Batteries which can be placed anywhere, and are about a quarter the size of the MS's extra bulk compared to a swarmpistol in the worst case...

I like the extra bulk(AKA air bladder) Sad Makes a nice arm rest/shoulder stock.
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Masturcief42

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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 02:27:12 PM »

Toruk, what do you use as a secondary? Just the swarmfire integration or something more?
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torukmakto4

Inhuman Resistance

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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 03:09:01 PM »

Toruk, what do you use as a secondary? Just the swarmfire integration or something more?

Swarmpistol. Sometimes I don't feel it necessary to drag it along and I just rely on the swarmpede to have enough redundancy, but late game I will probably have the pistol on me all the time.
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CT-2406
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irishknots


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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 03:22:00 PM »

Again, a very comprehensive job you've done here on this guide. I feel, like many others, that perhaps the magstrike belongs in a higher tier for pure unmodded use. Yes, it may be out of production and others prefer swarmies, but for those of us who prefer to not rely on electronics, it is perfect. I might be a bit old fashioned, but when I am in battle, I like having the air powered blaster as a quick draw. Bobololo's usage of his Magstrike is perfect. Wield the primary as you need and have 10 shots ready to spray? Easy way to save your life when you are rushed.

After exploring more of the vortex series this weekend, I feel that the Praxis/Lumitron/Pyragon and/or the Vigilon would make a great secondary. If you reclock the spring these blasters become much more useful. The Praxis and offshoots are obviously the best choice for a secondary due to the pump action and clip action. Also I feel that accuracy with the vortex (particularly indoors) is very good at 30-45 feet. With the advent of slamfire on vortex, I feel this should get another mention in the secondaries section. IMO, using a different ammo type could make up for the area where the primary can fall short. If they packaged the vortex into an electronic package similar to the swarmies we might see more of them in use.

And one final note: one more write up? sidearms? Your opinions and writeups are very well done and I enjoy reading them
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Primary: RapidStrike/Swarmy/RS mini
Secondary: 180 Blade Stryfe
Tertiary: Hammershot/Triad
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thebestcookie


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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2012, 03:40:34 PM »

I'm gonna laugh when the whole discussion goes into whether the Maverick or the Nitefinder is better.
But I agree with irishknots. A writeup on sidearms would be great if you don't mind.
Thank you Smiley
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JPRoth1980


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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2012, 07:12:20 AM »

But I agree with irishknots. A writeup on sidearms would be great if you don't mind.
Thank you Smiley

Sidearms are even more murky than secondaries, since the best are viable secondaries as it is and the worst are, well, just that bad.  But I'll see what I can do, today or tomorrow.  Currently trying to come up with a viable, non-fugly way of carrying around a bunch of shingles so I won't be the old, fat guy who is constantly dropping them at a war.  Wink
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thebestcookie


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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 12:01:02 AM »

What good would shingles be for in HvZ?
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Ozymandias
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« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2012, 12:24:23 AM »

What good would shingles be for in HvZ?

If your school allows slugs.
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thebestcookie


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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2012, 12:32:36 AM »

I'm confused. Are we talking about roofing shingles?
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Cazzums
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Graveyard Shift

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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2012, 02:46:12 AM »

I'm confused. Are we talking about roofing shingles?
My guess: some sort of homemade ammo.
Not too informed on homemades...
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vidboi


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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2012, 06:32:53 AM »

http://forums.humansvszombies.org/index.php?topic=4667.0

Although I've never seen (and can't find) the term shingle used in that way anywhere else.
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JPRoth1980


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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2012, 06:40:30 AM »

It was a bit of an off-topic aside relating to an NIC War gun "clip system" of a sort.  Shingles are a way of holding said clips in an effort to carry ammunition more effectively.  My system is a little different than LouieC's, resembling more a thigh pouch than anything else.

Not that I think my PumpSnap would ever be considered legal in HvZ.  Or that it would be a secondary if it ever was.  Smiley

For even more clarification, there are NIC-based Nerf Wars that utilize a lot of blasters that would not be considered even remotely safe in HvZ.  Many of these are completely homemade out of PVC, very heavy springs, rubber washers, and various other bits of hardware.  An HvZ-legal blaster would be unable to compete in most Wars, being completely outranged (a War Primary should be shooting at least 100', and many can hit closer to 125') and firing homemade darts with metal washers as weights.

And now, back to the discussion on secondaries.  I do have a question for you guys:  what is the difference between a secondary and a sidearm?
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